On a September evening beneath the Acropolis, the Odeon of Herodes Atticus became the stage for a conversation on the future. Endeavor Greece, in partnership with Google Greece, hosted the 2nd Athens Innovation Summit, bridging the city’s legacy of bold ideas with today’s most transformative force: Artificial Intelligence.
At the center:Demis Hassabis, co-founder and CEO of Google DeepMind, and Kyriakos Mitsotakis, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic. Guiding them was Linda Rottenberg, co-founder and CEO of Endeavor. It was less a debate than a shared reflection: how do we ensure technology serves humanity?
Opening remarks from Costantza Sbokou-Constantakopoulou (Chairwoman, Endeavor Greece), Panagiotis Karampinis (Managing Director, Endeavor Greece), and Peggy Antonakou (General Manager, Google Southeast Europe) framed why this moment - and this gathering - matters.
Introductory Video Presentation
Welcome to the 2nd Athens Innovation Summit by Endeavor. 2,500 years ago, from this city and from this very hill around us, great innovators introduced their bold ideas around a timeless question: what kind of future we want to build together?
Today, high impact entrepreneurs around the world follow in their footsteps, daring to dream bigger, scale faster, create new jobs and multiply their impact by reinvesting in the next generation.
They are the outliers who transform markets, societies, and entire economies. Tonight, we continue the legacy with them.
C. SBOKOU-CONSTANTAKOPOULOU: Good evening, dear Prime Minister, dear ministers, members of the Greek Parliament, dear friends. Welcome to the 2nd Athens Innovation Summit at the Odeon of Herodes Atticus. I'm Costantza Sbokou-Constantakopoulou, the chairwoman of Endeavor Greece, and together with our managing director, Panagiotis Karabinis, it is our honor to host you at what promises to be a remarkable night at the intersection of innovation, leadership, and the future of technology.
P. KARABINIS: Endeavor, with its presence in more than 450 global markets, is known around the world as the organization that accelerates high-impact entrepreneurship. We support our entrepreneurs scale their businesses, create new jobs, and build world-class success stories. But Endeavor isn't just driven by growing bigger and faster. We're equally dedicated to growing better together by creating a multiplier effect that transforms entire economies.
C. SBOKOU-CONSTANTAKOPOULOU: In 2022, Endeavor Greece launched the first ever Athens Innovation Summit with a simple but powerful vision in mind. By gathering together international innovators here, at the very place where democracy was born, we could create a global platform to discuss the future of entrepreneurship and how to ensure that innovation makes the world fairer, more resilient, and more prosperous. This iconic venue served as an inspiration, pushing us to think more deeply not just about how to accelerate entrepreneurship, but also why we accelerate it.
We would like to thank the Ministry of Culture for giving us the opportunity to hold this timely, essential global dialogue at this incredible theater.
P. KARABINIS: And three years later, we are thrilled to return to the Herodion. Yet this moment calls for a different kind of reflection, to advocate for ethical innovation and to rethink what true power is all about. The times have changed.
C. SBOKOU-CONSTANTAKOPOULOU: Never before have we felt so strongly the responsibility to bring to the forefront the ethical and complex questions that innovation and technology, with their unprecedented advances, pose to humanity.
Never before have we felt so strongly the responsibility to guide and awaken the enthusiastic generations already engaging with AI, with their accountability with this tool.
By gathering here, we are standing at the very place where some of the boldest, brightest, and biggest ideas were born, molded, and put into action with incredible impact, changing the way we live to this day. In ancient Athens, innovation was leadership. It was power. But service to the people was its only calling. Today's high-impact entrepreneurs follow paths that started in ancient Greece, and Athens stands as a timeless symbol of what is possible by humanity.
P. KARABINIS: We're hosting this night because if we believe that heritage can guide us to a better future, then Athens has definitely a global role to play. We, the Athens Innovation Summit by Endeavor Greece, are on that mission, and we're not alone. This night is only made possible with the support of more than 100 startups, organizations, and corporations that came together. We're truly one community, and we're deeply grateful to all of you.
C. SBOKOU-CONSTANTAKOPOULOU: One of our closest partners this year is Google Greece. And now we would like to invite Peggy Antonakou to share a few words in Greek.
P. ANTONAKOU: Καλησπέρα σας. Συναντιόμαστε απόψε σε ένα χώρο που μετράει αιώνες ιστορίας, ένα χώρο που μας θυμίζει ότι η ανθρώπινη δημιουργικότητα είναι διαχρονική, ότι σε κάθε εποχή ο άνθρωπος βρίσκει τον τρόπο να αφήσει το αποτύπωμά του.
Εδώ, πριν χιλιάδες χρόνια, κάποιοι οραματίστηκαν, κοπίασαν, τόλμησαν να φτιάξουν κάτι που θα ξεπερνούσε πολύ τη δική τους εποχή. Μας χάρισαν αυτό το μεγαλειώδες, αιώνιο θα πω εγώ, θέατρο που μας φιλοξενεί απόψε. Μας χάρισαν τον Παρθενώνα, τρανή απόδειξη ότι όταν τεχνολογία και τέχνη βρίσκονται σε διάλογο δημιουργούν κάτι πολύ μεγαλύτερο από το άθροισμα των μερών τους.
Από τότε μέχρι σήμερα, ξανά και ξανά, η ανθρώπινη δημιουργικότητα έρχεται και συναντά την τεχνολογία της εποχής και έτσι κάθε γενιά έχει την ευκαιρία να αφήσει το δικό της στίγμα. Ποιο θα είναι άραγε το δικό μας στίγμα, ας πούμε, 2.000 χρόνια από σήμερα; Το δικό μας εργαλείο της σημερινής εποχής ονομάζεται τεχνητή νοημοσύνη και είναι δίχως αμφιβολία το πιο προηγμένο εργαλείο που συνέλαβε ποτέ ο ανθρώπινος νους.
Και όπως κάθε ισχυρό εργαλείο, έρχεται με ευκαιρίες και προκλήσεις. Χρειάζεται όραμα, ήθος, ηγεσία αλλά και σεβασμό, γνώση και κανόνες. Γιατί όπως τότε, έτσι και σήμερα η τεχνολογία είναι απλά το εργαλείο. Εμείς βάζουμε το μυαλό και την ψυχή. Είναι λοιπόν στο δικό μας χέρι να χρησιμοποιηθεί για καλό, με υπευθυνότητα, τόλμη και συνεργασία.
Σήμερα κρατάμε στα χέρια μας μια τεχνολογία ικανή να μεταμορφώσει εντελώς ριζικά τον κόσμο μας και ένα πράγμα είναι ξεκάθαρο: οι δυνατότητες είναι απλά ατελείωτες. Πόσο συνειδητά θα τις αγκαλιάσουμε; Πόσο αποφασιστικά θα τις αξιοποιήσουμε; Και ίσως το πιο σημαντικό όλων, πώς θα δουλέψουμε μαζί ώστε να διασφαλίσουμε ότι θα είναι σε όφελος όλων;
Γιατί είναι σε τέτοιες στιγμές μεγάλων αποφάσεων, κυρίες και κύριοι, που παίρνει μορφή το κοινό μας μέλλον και είναι δική μας ευθύνη να το διαμορφώσουμε με σοφία, έμπνευση και θάρρος.
Σε μια τόσο υπέροχη βραδιά, σε ένα τόσο μαγικό χώρο, ας αισθανθούμε τυχεροί και ας ονειρευτούμε ένα αύριο, ένα μέλλον όπου το αδύνατο γίνεται πια δυνατό. Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ.
C. SBOKOU-CONSTANTAKOPOULOU: Thank you, Peggy. It is in this spirit of innovation, global dialogue, and visionary leadership that we are thrilled to welcome three remarkable guests tonight.
Starting with our honorary guest, a pioneer at the forefront of artificial intelligence, a Nobel Prize scientist, entrepreneur, co-founder and CEO of Google DeepMind. With a career spanning neuroscience, computer science, and artificial intelligence, he has led some of the most significant breakthroughs in modern AI, including AlphaGo and AlphaFold. He's also a leading voice in the ethical development of AI, advocating for transparency, safety, and human-centered design, Dr. Demis Hassabis.
Joining him is a leader who has helped position Greece as a forward-looking, digitally driven country. Under his leadership, Greece has implemented bold reforms in digital governance, education, innovation, fostering a culture of entrepreneurship and technological advancement. He understands the role of policy in shaping how transformative technologies, like AI, are used, and how they serve people, not just progress, Prime Minister of the Hellenic Republic, Kyriakos Mitsotakis.
P. KARABINIS: Their conversation will be moderated by the co-founder and CEO of Endeavor, an entrepreneur and best-selling author. Recognized as a leading global voice on entrepreneurship, she has been named as America's Best Leaders by US News and an Innovator for the 21st Century by Time. Under her leadership, Endeavor has expanded to more than 50 countries and helping thousands of entrepreneurs scale their businesses and transform their markets, Linda Rottenberg.
C. SBOKOU-CONSTANTAKOPOULOU: The conversation you're about to listen delves into the role of artificial intelligence in our fast-changing world, from healthcare and energy, governance and education, to the future of technology. We invite you to engage with the dilemmas, the opportunities, and the accountability we all share in shaping a future where innovation serves the common good, and to ensure the humanity and the wisdom of our past remains a driving force. Enjoy the evening.
P. KARABINIS: Enjoy the evening.
SPEAKER: Ladies and gentlemen, please, welcome on stage the Greek Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the co-founder of Google DeepMind, Sir Demis Hassabis, and the co-founder of Endeavor, Linda Rottenberg.
K. MITSOTAKIS: I'm sitting there.
D. HASSABIS: Yes.
L. ROTTENBERG: Good evening, everyone. I can't think of a more perfect setting or a more perfect pairing for tonight's conversation. We are seated at the southwest slope of the Acropolis, the birthplace of democracy, philosophy, and drama, to discuss one of the most dramatic moments in human history: the rise of artificial intelligence and the challenge it poses to all of us to get this moment right.
I'm joined by Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, who has been a strong advocate for innovation, while also emphasizing the need for ethical frameworks, and by Sir Demis Hassabis, who has been at the forefront of this revolution, while also advocating for educating citizens on the limitations of AI.
I'm honored to be with you both and look forward to our conversation.
So, I'd like to frame tonight's conversation around three larger themes: One, what can we learn from past moments of enormous human change, the Golden Age in Athens, the Industrial Revolution, to shape our approach to today? Two, the current dialogue around AI centers on Silicon Valley versus China, and yet as we see in the 50 countries where Endeavor operates, innovation is everywhere. We're big proponents of what we call the power of elsewhere.
So, question number two, what can we learn from a country like Greece and a London-based company like DeepMind that can help inspire founders everywhere? And three, with the prospect of general and artificial intelligence, or AGI, it poses a unique challenge to human civilization. So, we'll spend most of our conversation in this area, and ask you both to draw on your experiences to help us navigate the inherent tensions of the moment. So, let's dive in.
Prime Minister Mitsotakis, you and I met many years ago studying philosophy and social theory at Harvard, and there was even a class called “Thinking About Thinking” that began with a focus in ancient Athens. So, we're here at the Herodion. As you think about the future of AI, what values from Greece's past should guide us?
K. MITSOTAKIS: Well, first of all, it's a real privilege to be sharing the stage with Demis. Thank you so much for being here and for supporting us in this fascinating journey to understand how we can use AI in a truly positive manner.
It's amazing to be sitting here. Usually, we don't appreciate how this theater looks like from the stage. But I think it is sometimes worthwhile to think and draw lessons from classical Athens, although we need to point out that this Odeon was built during the Roman era, and to understand what was it that caused this amazing innovation in terms of organizing our societies and what, you know, forced Athenians to abandon old systems of political regimes in favor of democracy.
And at a time when democracy is under challenge everywhere, looking back to ancient Athens and trying to draw lessons from that unique experiment, acknowledging its limitations, I think is very much worthwhile understanding the true power of debate, the necessity to be able to convince citizens who will then vote all together about the collective actions of of the city.
And also, to recognize, I think, what Thucydides said in his funeral oration, which I always try to remember, that if you don't do well in a city that is flourishing, the city will find ways to support you. But if you do well in a city that doesn't do well as a whole, you will probably also end up not thriving.
So, connecting the benefit of the city to individual flourishment is something which was very much at the heart of Athenian democracy. So, I always like to look back and to draw lessons from this period, and I think, these days, this is a very healthy exercise.
L. ROTTENBERG: Demis, you have also spoken a lot of “Thinking about Thinking” and the need to draw lessons from the past. I know you're a student of the Athenian philosophers, and with regard to another great disruption, you've said that AI will be 10 times bigger and 10 times faster than the Industrial Revolution.
So, take us behind the scenes in the labs with your engineers and designers. Are you talking about Aristotle and Plato? And are you worrying about a new Dickensian London?
D. HASSABIS: Well, thank you, and first of all, I wanted to say thank you to the Prime Minister and the government and Endeavor as well for inviting me here. It's incredible to be talking here in this amazing, historic place. And as you mentioned those greats, I'm really proud of my Greek heritage on my father's side, and one of the things that I studied a lot growing up was the classics and Greek history and also mythology, and really actually was very formative for me about the way I think about the world.
And you talk about those, the greats, you know, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Archimedes, and really, this is the birthplace of not just democracy but also science and philosophy. And actually, my favorite piece of art is “The School of Athens” by Raphael, you know, in the Vatican, and depicting that kind of golden era in an idealistic way.
And I think we can learn a lot of lessons from that time. I think especially the way, as you mentioned in the beginning, sciences and arts can be blended together, and drama, and it's all one part of being human and advancing human knowledge and understanding of the human condition.
And that's how I've tried to work in my career. Even though I've worked in technology, I've also worked in things like designing video games, which involves the artistic side of things too. So, I'm very interested in how AI can help both with the sciences, advanced science, but also how it can help enable more creativity too.
L. ROTTENBERG: Wonderful. So, let's move on to the topic of innovation elsewhere. Demis, you were born in London. Your father was Greek Cypriot, your mother Chinese Singaporean, and yet when you raised capital from American investors, they told you you had to move to Silicon Valley. You resisted and stayed in London. Tell us how you made that decision and what have been the pros and the cons.
D. HASSABIS: Well, sort of, you know, when we started DeepMind back in 2010, it's hard to imagine today, just 15 years later, but almost nobody was working on AI, even in academia, let alone in industry. So, it was a very unusual thing to try and raise venture capital for, and we had to find unusual investors in the West Coast.
But I wanted to stay in London. I mean, I grew up in London. I love London as an international city. But the main things were, I felt there was incredible talent in Europe, and the UK, that was untapped at the time for deep technologies, like AI. And I felt that if we could set up an ambitious organization that was really trying to reach for the sky, those types of people would be attracted to work in a place like that.
And we'd sort of have the field to ourselves in the UK at the time. And that's what transpired, and now of course, hopefully DeepMind has been a good example for many other deep technology companies now to start up in Europe and in London. And we're proud to have played a part in that.
But then the other really important thing was more from an ethical point of view, which is that when even though we in 2010 seemed like a long way to go before we would make progress with AI, we planned for success. So, at some point, we imagined and we knew, and even before setting up DeepMind, that if we were successful in this endeavor, AGI and AI would be one of the most important technologies ever invented.
So, if that was true, and it was possible to build it, then of course that would also come along with a lot of important ethical questions and ethical challenges about how to make sure it benefits all of society, and also, technical questions around how we keep that kind of technology under control and on the right guard rails.
So, we already had at the beginning of DeepMind, we were planning for, if we were successful, then these ethical questions and tenets really would have to be built in from the beginning. So, we've always had that in mind. And so, where that comes with Europe is that I think AI, and it's clear to everyone now, it's going to affect every corner of the world, every industry, all parts of society.
So, I think it's important for the world to have a say in how this technology is developed, not just a small part of, you know, California. And, I think Europe's voice in that, I think is really important and the value systems that we have in Europe. So, I think you can only have that kind of influence if you're also at the leading edge technologically. And that's what we've tried to wave the flag for with DeepMind and do our part in that.
L. ROTTENBERG: I loved, by the way, meeting Yannis of Reflection.ai, a Greek founder in AI who worked for you at Google DeepMind.
D. HASSABIS: Yes.
L. ROTTENBERG: And I've been saying that Endeavor's all about starting the tech mafias, and you have your, like the PayPal mafia. And you have your DeepMind mafia already. It's amazing.
Mr. Prime Minister, you are working hard to make Greece a place that really matters, in terms of innovation elsewhere. You and Endeavor Greece have collaborated on an initiative called Innovation Nation, and Faros AI is one of the first AI factories in all of Europe.
We were talking earlier, and you reminded me that you worked as a venture capitalist before you went into politics and have cared about this topic for a long time. So, describe your local and regional efforts on innovation, and globally, how do you plan to compete for talent like Demis?
K. MITSOTAKIS: Well, first of all, thank you, Demis, for mentioning the important role that Europe can play in this new emerging world where, it seems to me that most of the discussion involves a competition between the United States and China. And the truth is that when we talk about Europe, we usually think of a supernational entity that is very good at regulating but not very good at innovating. And I think there is some truth to that.
And one of the main missions that we as European leaders have agreed to is how do we make Europe as a whole more entrepreneurial? How do we break down barriers between countries? How do we create a true single market which really does not exist in digital services? I'm sure this is the experience also of a lot of Greek startups.
And how can we actually also raise capital at the European level, to ensure that our startups or Greek startups don't necessarily have to be acquired by the big US companies, in order to chart their own future path? So, there is, I think, a big European dimension in terms of fostering innovation. And we have made good use of these European initiatives and the European funds by setting up one of the first seven AI factories in Greece which is essentially a structure revolving around a very powerful supercomputer that is in the process of being built in the city of Lavrio.
But also trying to make sure that our startups have access to cutting-edge computing power and can actually develop AI solutions out of Greece. And I must pay tribute to the tremendous work that Endeavor has done in fostering what is an incredibly dynamic startup ecosystem in Greece.
I was a venture capital many, many years ag. I set up the first incubator in Greece back in 2001 and never would have imagined that this dynamism would emerge out of Greece. And it's a complete change in the mindset of young people thinking about entrepreneurship and actually, taking the risk to set up their own companies.
So, for us, I see AI as a transformative technology that can really allow the country to leapfrog other European countries in our effort to catch up with the rest of Europe. It's as simple as that. And this means not just supporting our ecosystem of entrepreneurs, which is something that we do through incentives, through supporting more venture capital but also trying to use artificial intelligence at the level of the government.
This was a topic of the discussion that we had today in terms of becoming much more efficient but also in terms of identifying specific verticals where AI can truly be transformative: Healthcare, education, civil protection, just to mention a few of these vertical areas where we really want to be at the forefront of applying artificial intelligence for the benefit of all Greeks.
So, I'm very enthusiastic and very excited about the prospect of this endeavor that we have sort of started to implement and really extremely bullish about also the future of the Greek entrepreneurial ecosystem.
L. ROTTENBERG: That's wonderful.
K. MITSOTAKIS: And I would never have imagined that we would be able to fill this auditorium, you know, 45 minutes before Greece is going to play a very important…
L. ROTTENBERG: Giannis Antetokounmpo!
K. MITSOTAKIS: …basketball game. Thank you for being here.
L. ROTTENBERG: Exactly. Well, we will get you out in time and Giannis is actually a supporter of Endeavor, so we love him. And I should say that everyone met our incredible chairwoman, Constanza, as well as our managing director Panos but it was your wife, an entrepreneur, Mareva, who first convinced us to bring Endeavor to Greece.
K. MITSOTAKIS: Yeah, I should point out that, you know, I know Linda since we were classmates at Harvard College. I tried to convince her to bring Endeavor to Greece. I failed but Mareva succeeded so well done.
L. ROTTENBERG: I'm sure... she's very persuasive.
K. MITSOTAKIS: Get to the founder of Endeavor.
L. ROTTENBERG: Okay, so those were the warm-up questions. Now let's dive into some of the tensions starting with innovation versus regulation. So, Demis, you're part of an industry that is famous for its “move fast and break things” technology... I mean philosophy which translates to “government keep your hands off”. And yet you've said that perhaps AI was released from the lab too early. So, now that the genie is out of the bottle, are there opportunities for governments to regulate AI or is your colleague at Microsoft Mustafa Suleyman right that containment is no longer possible?
D. HASSABIS: So, you know, I think, we've thought a lot about these topics over the years and, I feel like you've got to be at the cutting edge of the technology to understand what's coming down the road. So if, in terms of, it's moving so fast and it's changing so fast, we have to be careful about how we regulate it, as it's so important, it needs to be regulated well, but we have to allow the innovation to flourish and be bold about that, whilst mitigating against the risks.
And actually, although, as you said, you know, the tech industry is famous for its move fast and break things, I actually don't subscribe to that view with this technology.
Of course, it made a lot of progress and a lot of the modern technology we see today comes from that kind of relentless progress, and that part of it is good, but I think with a technology as transformative as AI, we have to be more thoughtful about it than that. Maybe, you know, in terms of, like, the “break things” part of the “move fast and break things”, we need to be more careful and try and have as much foresight as possible.
So, I would advocate, instead of that philosophy, to use the scientific method and to try and get as much understanding about these systems before they're sort of deployed really widely. And it doesn't mean we'll get everything right all the time, but because it's moving so things are changing so fast, but we should try and do the best things possible to safeguard against these risks, whilst enabling all the amazing new cases like advancing science and medicine, and all the amazing things that I think AI will bring into the world.
So, we've got to get that balance right of being bold with the opportunities, but being responsible about mitigating the risks, and, you know, that's gonna be a continual tension, creative tension, I think, all the way to AGI.
L. ROTTENBERG: That... I love that answer. Mr. Prime Minister, what is your answer to the question of regulating AI and what can national governments like yours do or should there be some sort of supranational structure akin to what we did in the monetary system following World War II? Some are calling for a Bretton Woods of AI.
K. MITSOTAKIS: I've been thinking a lot about this question and, unfortunately, there is no easy answer. I do believe that at some point some sort of global arrangement will be necessary, especially an understanding between the US and China that there are real risks involved in this technology and that if this becomes, you know, a race to who develops first the most powerful model, then there is really no incentive to regulate because there are commercial incentives and geopolitical incentives just to be the first to get your hands on this extremely powerful technology.
And this, of course, creates an environment where no one talks about regulation and very few people are as thoughtful as Demis about the consequences and the ramifications of this incredible technology that we have created. In Europe, we have our own regulatory framework which I think is reasonably well thought out, and I'm talking about the AI Act, but at some point, we don't want to be a regulatory black box in a world where no one is talking about regulation.
So, I think it is important to engage both with the United States and with China and certainly to engage with the big technology companies and in my mind, we need to pick our regulatory battles in a smart way. So, we need to set some clear priorities.
For example, for me and for Greece, there are two areas that concern me profoundly. The first is the health and the mental health of kids and teenagers, and the second is the impact of AI on our democratic discourse, and we were discussing this with Demis. We're gonna have elections in two years and I think the number of deepfakes that we will see by then, is going to be a real challenge to the democratic discourse and to actually getting to the truth of anything if we don't know what is true and what is created by artificial intelligence. And especially when it comes to the question of mental health of kids and teenagers, there, I think we need to be stricter also with the big technology companies in terms of either pushing for a design that really takes into account the relative age of the users, or even considering, you know, more radical options such as banning the use of social media under a certain age, if we cannot succeed otherwise in mitigating the negative impact of our kids having access to smartphones which really have been built simply, with a simple purpose of maximizing engagement.
And again, this is probably a question relevant to social media, less relevant to artificial intelligence but of course as these algorithms become smarter they will also become smarter in terms of capturing our attention. And when we're talking about the brain of a child or a teenager we're really running a massive experiment with the mental health of the next generation and I don't think we are fully cognizant of the risks that we are assuming.
So, I would really like to engage with the big tech companies and to make them understand that they need to be part of this discussion and they need to be bolder in thinking about this challenge and if regulation is necessary then we should not hesitate to regulate that space smartly.
One last point, I think Greece has led probably Europe in terms of technologies around age verification, so we now have what we call a Kids Wallet, which is a platform that allows parents to set up the phones of their kids in a way that suits their own preferences and choices. It's a first step in the direction of at least making parents and kids aware that being sort of addicted to the phone and being addicted to constant scrolling is probably not the best thing you can do as a kid or as a teenager.
L. ROTTENBERG: Yeah. And I'd love Demis to have the chance to respond. Let me just add that one of our classmates two weeks ago announced that one of their children who was in their 20s had taken their life, left no note, and the parents discovered that they had been conversing not with Google but with one of your competitors, AI, and had used that as their therapist and friend, and decided to take their own life, and it's just... I'd love the chance for you to respond 'cause this is a real thing that parents are worried about.
D. HASSABIS: Yeah, there's a lot of complexities here that I think have to be navigated very carefully and I think the Prime Minister is absolutely right about that, and we at Google, of course, are thinking very carefully about those things. And I think we should learn the lesson from social media actually, where, you know, this attitude of maybe “move fast and break things” went ahead of the understanding of what the consequent second and third order effects were gonna be, and I think with AI, we have to get that right.
And in fact, we also need to think about the way AI interacts with social media and I think it can help with some of these attention issues in terms of summarizing things and helping with finding the things that are useful and helpful for people without hijacking their attention. But it can also, if it was misused, it can make the problem worse.
So, I think we've got a lot of complicated things to navigate, and this is, again, one of the challenges with AI as well as one of the opportunities. And I also agree with the Prime Minister that, ideally, we would have some international cooperation or understanding or minimum standards around the deployment of AI, 'cause I think that's where the rubber meets the road, is where there's the research and there's interesting research challenges there about AGI and autonomous systems and how to keep control of those things, but actually how when it affects the public, it's through the deployment in products and services, and I think that's where maybe regulation in the near term can focus on 'cause it's more tangible as to what the effects are that governments want and society wants to see.
But again, enabling all the good use cases of AI as well, and increased productivity in science and in medicine and those things. So, again, it's gonna be about getting that balance right between innovation and mitigating the risks.
L. ROTTENBERG: Another area where there's dissonance between political leaders and tech leaders is whether the future will be shaped by scarcity or abundance. Mr. Prime Minister, I suspect or can imagine that a lot of your energy is focused on managing the real-world consequences of climate change, and yet we hear from the futurists that AI will solve all these problems, ushering in an era of radical abundance, and all we need to do is shift our zero-sum mindset. So, as a leader, how are you balancing the short-term anxiety with the long-term promises?
K. MITSOTAKIS: Well, Keynes famously said, "In the long term, we're all dead." So, I think it's a very valid question, and I think that if one were to try to imagine the world in 2050, I think a lot of the challenges that we are facing today, such as, for example, nuclear fusion, unlimited, you know, cheap energy, these problems will probably be solved by then. But the question is, how do we get from where we are today to where we will be in 25 years?
And there's no doubt in my mind that AI can create tremendous productivity gains and hence create tremendous wealth. Then the question becomes, okay, if there is a lot of wealth to be created, how is this wealth going to be split and how is everyone really going to benefit from this amazing technological revolution?
And we were discussing what happened during the Industrial Revolution, and this transformation is gonna be much more significant, and there was a lot of social upheaval, and we should have no doubt in our minds that a lot of jobs will be threatened or will be destroyed as a result of this revolution. And we're not just talking about blue-collar jobs, we're talking about white-collar jobs.
And that is going to cause a lot of anxiety. It will put our, you know, pension systems under a lot of stress. So, you will have productivity gains for industry, or for capital, especially the big companies that are developing these technologies, or the companies that are actually using it in order to enhance their productivity. So, wealth will be created, but you will also have a significant displacement of jobs. And I think what I'm describing, I think, is already happening in the United States if you look at the labor market, and I don't think we are ready as a society, about this reality which will hit us relatively soon.
So, you know, there was always this discussion regarding the destruction of jobs and the creation of new jobs. And every time, in every big technological revolution, people were very, very pessimistic, only to realize that maybe more or different jobs or better jobs were created in the future. But there is going to be a period of transition.
So, unless people actually see benefits, personal benefits, to this revolution, they will tend to become very skeptical. And if they see, -sorry for being so blunt- obscene wealth being created within very few companies, this is a recipe for significant social unrest. So, I would very much urge us to engage in a more substantive discussion with the technology companies to at least acknowledge the fact that these changes in the labor market may actually happen sooner than we think.
Because at the end of the day, if AI is a productivity tool, it clearly enhances the productivity of workers, but it will also replace human labor. And every corporation will have an incentive to do that if, at the end of the day, the return on its investment is positive.
L. ROTTENBERG: We will get back to the question of jobs with Demis. I wanted to focus a little bit on this notion of radical abundance, and it does feel like we're being told daily that a cure for cancer, limitless clean energy, life spans to 150 with interstellar travel is, like, weeks away, and you won a Nobel Prize, shared in a Nobel Prize for AlphaFold, which correctly predicted the structure of 3D proteins, and that is amazing.
But actually, skeptics are now comparing this era to the “dot com” bubble and The Atlantic went so far as to call AI a "mass delusion event". So, are you worried that your colleagues are over-promising and under-delivering, and that people aren't feeling the benefits of all the wonderful things you're speaking of?
D. HASSABIS: Yeah, so I've no doubt that, I think that a lot of the progress in AI has been incredible and almost at light speed, but it's not a silver bullet in of itself. And I think, what I often say is that it's been overhyped in the near term, the very near term, the next couple of years, you know, AGI, I think, is at least five to 10 years away. There're still some big breakthroughs that I think are required, but I think it's also underestimated, underappreciated quite how transformative it will be when it does come even still now.
And just a way of quantifying that, we're talking about an industrial revolution, which, I think, we can learn a lot of lessons from, but I expect AGI, the advent of AGI to be maybe something like 10 times the impact of the industrial revolution, but maybe 10 times faster as well, so kinda 100X, so, you know, in a decade, over a decade instead of a century.
So, if you think about that, that's pretty monumental. I think that's what's coming down the line, and we have to use the time now, and governments, and technology companies, and society needs to use the time now to prepare for that and what that means. And I think there'll be these amazing things, there will be this kind of notion of radical abundance in terms of, and AlphaFold I think is just the first example of that, that we'll look back on in a decade, and hopefully there'll be many more examples of these big breakthroughs.
L. ROTTENBERG: Working on cancer-related drugs.
D. HASSABIS: Yes, on things like fusion and material design, optimal batteries, all sorts of incredible new technologies in both energy, in physics, and in medicine. And I think that could lead to a world where we have this notion of radical abundance, where, you know, we're not limited by the amount of resources, maybe we're also because we have this unlimited sort of renewable free energy, we can make space travel easier.
These types of things, they sound quite fantastical perhaps today, but I think in 25 years’ time, it would be perhaps maybe normal. But then the question comes is how do we make sure all of that extra productivity, all those extra resources are distributed fairly and everyone benefits from them in a fair way? And I think that's more a government, a society, and social science, and economics question, rather than just a technological one.
And how do we do that internationally, and what are the right governance bodies? And probably they don't exist today, the right types of institutions to, to deal with, those types of questions. So, maybe we need to do some institutional building first, over the next decade, and then we can sort of deal with that next era.
So, I think it's gonna be very exciting, but there will be challenges, and I have a lot of confidence and faith in the adaptability of humans. You know, we're incredible. What we have, the human brain is the only evidence we have maybe in the known universe of general intelligence being possible, and look, and we're sitting in, look what humanity has created with our minds, modern civilization, modern science, modern philosophy, and I think we're infinitely adaptable, and I think we'll do that again for this next era.
L. ROTTENBERG: So, you brought up near-term jobs, and he's saying that part of the near-term allocation of equitable distribution of resources and jobs is up to, you know, leaders in government like you. And how, what steps are you taking to ease this uneasy transition? How are you dealing, preparing Greece for the disruption of traditional jobs, and how are you preparing Greek citizens for the new jobs of the future?
K. MITSOTAKIS: Well, first of all, I think it is important to align our education system with the needs of the labor market. This is a challenge that is faced by all governments, and as the requirements of the labor markets change, so do also the expectations from our educational system.
There's a lot of talk about re-skilling and up-skilling. It's a difficult exercise to implement but it is probably the only solution I can see in terms of ensuring that we can offer people maybe slightly different jobs from what they had which will be better adapted to the new reality.
And of course, I do need to point out that Greece is a country with a healthy manufacturing base but it is primarily a service economy. And I think service economies probably in the short term are better protected than countries that rely more on manufacturing where I can see the double impact of AI and robotics because we have not spoken about robotics yet but I think that is another completely transformative technology to significantly displace a large number of jobs.
Look at Europe for example, and the importance of the automotive sector. Electric cars require fewer components, the supply chains will be shrunk. We're faced with a lot of competition already from the US and in particular, China. So, the countries that are dependent auto manufacturing, unless we radically rethink the role of the European auto industry, are going to be threatened in terms of significant job displacement.
In our case for example, in tourism or in jobs, we've discussed it, that require still human interaction, we are in the short term better protected. I don't yet see, you know, in the near future a robot being able to serve a customer who comes to visit Greece. But this does not mean that the job displacement has not started and we need to be very... monitoring the labor market very, very carefully and, and try to adapt as well as we can. And of course, also, educate our children in terms of using these new technologies, because at the end of the day, I prefer to acknowledge that our kids are already using artificial intelligence without, you know, naming specific companies.
I prefer to train them to use artificial intelligence in a smart and efficient manner, than to have them, you know, go and ask their own questions and then just present them as their own as their own work at school. Because this is a big temptation. You should have no doubt about that.
L. ROTTENBERG: My girls should have oral exams and in-class essays.
K. MITSOTAKIS: It's difficult to explain to, I don't know, even a 15-year-old or even a college student that they actually have to think and write if artificial intelligence can do this for them. So, we should also talk to neuroscientists about, you know, the development of the brain, and what are these basic skills that are required for us to become fully developed, well-functioning humans? Because our brain is a product of millions of years of evolution but if it starts losing the capacity to do things which it has been doing for many, many years, what could that sort of mean for a generation of kids who may have difficulties just writing, if, you know, artificial intelligence can write for them?
So, what are the basic skills that make us truly human, that we need to protect at all costs, and to use artificial intelligence maybe in a more sort of Socratic method to challenge, you know, kids? Because it can be truly transformative, right? Every kid could have a private tutor but we need to understand that right now, it's probably used by kids to help them avoid doing things that they should be doing on their own.
L. ROTTENBERG: Demis.
D. HASSABIS: Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think that's why, I mean, the educational system has to catch up I think in terms of kids are using these systems today but maybe not in the most beneficial way.
How do we train the next generation to use these new tools in ways that are complementary to human thought and help advance their productivity?
And if we do that, I think, they can have, you know, 10X the kind of productivity and output that we have today, just in the way that if you use computers in a smart way, people used to worry about this with the advent of home computers, also mobile and the internet. But they can be used both in positive ways to speed up things like learning and understand more than one subject area, make connections between those things.
So, for example, multidisciplinary thinking, I think, is easier than ever before now because of the availability of that information. But only if you go and do the hard work to go out and get that and actually absorb it properly rather than just on a superficial level.
So, I think that this has lots of implications for our educational systems, but I think for the next decade or so, I would still advocate the core learnings in STEM, mathematics, physics. I think if you have a better understanding of how the technology is built, you'll be able to use it in more productive ways. I think that'll still be true for the next, the next phase.
L. ROTTENBERG: Yeah, and I'd love to hear just one level down, I mean, there's a lot of debates as to which short-term jobs will be most at risk. So where do you come in at this? Who's most vulnerable in the short term? And longer term, what would you recommend, what skills, what tools, what knowledge should kids today, students today, lifelong learners be developing? And if you were back in colleges, what STEM classes and what humanities classes would you be taking?
D. HASSABIS: Look, I think it's very hard to predict the future, like in, you know, 10 years from now in normal cases, even harder today with given how fast AI is changing even week by week. So, what I would say is the only thing you can say for certain is that huge change is coming.
So, if you have that as a premise then we need to start thinking about with, you know, students of today, what are the meta-skills, as I call them, that you need to learn in addition to knowledge that you need to have about mathematics and sciences and so on, and humanities.
What about the meta-skills of learning to learn? You know, learning about yourself, what conditions do you learn best under? How do you optimize your own learning rate on a new subject? Because one thing we'll know for sure is you're gonna have to continually learn I think throughout your career.
The opportunities I think will appear is, actually the biggest ones will be connecting two different subjects together and finding something that is analogous between the two or combining them in some way. And one of those subjects could be AI, applied to many things. But I think there'll be lots of low-hanging fruit, both scientifically and in business in finding interesting connection points between two seemingly disparate fields.
So, that speaks to this sort of idea of, like, multidisciplinary learning, and I think AI can actually be a very helpful tool in a personalized education, personalized tutor for it to allow you to go much more deeply into many subjects than perhaps you could before.
L. ROTTENBERG: Wonderful. So, perhaps the area of greatest tension, as we move toward AGI is around this issue you brought up, Mr. Prime Minister, about the essence of what it means to be human.
And if we go back to ancient Greece for a moment, what made this hillside famous wasn't just the thinking about thinking. It was the architecture, the theater, the creativity. As the mother of an art historian and a poet, I'm especially interested in what happens to these areas of our shared identity. And, Demis, you come from an artistic family and have an artistic background. You've also said that culture is the output of our collective brains. So, how do you believe that AI is going to reshape culture?
D. HASSABIS: Well, I hope, you know, what we're doing at Google and DeepMind is trying to build new tools using these technologies that help empower the creative process.
And we, you know, have huge respect and I have huge passion for the creative arts, as you said. Early in my career, you know, I was working on video games and designing and working with artists and I saw first-hand doing that in my teenage years, how powerful it can be when you combine cutting edge technology, graphics, physics, and AI in those days, in the '90s, along with artistic and creative talents.
And a lot of magic can happen when you combine those things together and the technology enables new creativity. So, that's the way I'd like to see it go, and we have a lot of collaborations with top film directors and artists and musicians around the world who come in and use our tools when they're in, we're still forming them, and give us feedback about what they would like to see, what would be helpful for them in terms of outputting and making their creative process more powerful or simpler for them or quicker for them.
And I think that's still in the early days of exploration now of how that will be enabled. And actually, just going back to the jobs question, I think there's still this part of like the special element, almost like the soul of the art and the culture that the human narrator or creator will bring to the art itself. And I think that's never going to change and I think that's the heart of drama and human drama in all of these things. And I think AI tools will just be enablers of those things.
And with jobs, it may be that sort of counterintuitively, we may revalue certain services or certain expertise. That may change, but that may not be a bad thing. So, for example, one counterintuitive example I give is that we may end up valuing nursing or caregiving more than being a doctor because of the different way AI will affect those different professions. But perhaps we are undervaluing and underpaying caregiving today. You know, that might be the case, so we'll just have to see how that develops over the next decade or so.
L. ROTTENBERG: Great. I want to come back to this issue of creativity and what it is to be human, but, Mr. Prime Minister, you've said that Greece should contribute to the global ethics of AI, and you've also argued for a human-centric approach. So, what do you mean by this human-centered approach and what should Demis and his colleagues keep in mind as they're pushing towards AGI?
K. MITSOTAKIS: Human-centric approach to AI means that AI should be a tool towards human flourishment and not a replacement for human activity or human thinking. So, it's a question of how AI can help us become better, to put it in very, very simple terms, which of course sounds like a very general statement, but if you dig a little bit deeper, it raises a lot of questions.
You asked the question, basic philosophical question of how do we approach AI? Does AI have a conscience? Can a system of artificial intelligence express emotions? What if a 15-year-old starts interacting with a system of artificial intelligence and that system becomes, that bot or whatever you call it, becomes his or her friend? And how do we program these algorithms in terms of dealing with what is a fundamentally human prerogative, and that is emotions?
Because we've spoken a lot about thinking and emotions is what distinguishes us to a certain extent from all other species. So, we know that AI can do a reasonable amount of thinking and it can speak in natural language, so, speaking, which is also what distinguishes us from all other species has already been done by AI.
But how are you going to program these algorithms to ensure that if a 16-year-old starts engaging with the system, and this is a real example, and starts, you know, asking questions about suicide that, you know, the system, you know, steps in and offers, you know, those answers that one would expect it to offer? And there is no easy answer to that, but this is a topic that really concerns me and I would be very, very interested to hear Demis' thoughts on this.
D. HASSABIS: Yeah, this is where I think, you know, we are really talking about philosophical issues here in some sense, not just technological ones of what it means to be human, you know, what is special about the human condition, what do we want to protect about that.
And I think I would advocate, although we're only just one part of the field, but with our kind of leading role of, like, building AI in the first instance very much as a tool that enhances and helps humanity flourish.
And I think if we do that in the right way and build it in the right way, I think we can have sort of this amazing new golden era of maximum human flourishing, where we understand the universe around us a lot better, you know, human health is enhanced, and perhaps we're also, as you mentioned earlier, traveling to the stars and spreading consciousness to the universe.
So, I think that could be the future, an amazing golden future for humanity. But on the way, I think the first step will be to build these incredible tools, and then maybe use those tools to help understand our own minds better. What is consciousness? You know, can we define exactly what it is? That's still in the philosophical realm. Can we measure it? Do these systems have any semblance of that? I think today, currently, they clearly don't.
And other things that we think of as uniquely human, from creativity to emotions to dreaming. We would like to understand, I think, from a neuroscience perspective and psychology perspective, what those mechanisms are, and then I think we'll have to make at the next stage the decision about what do future AI systems, what should we build into them?
But I think for the very first step, we should very much think of them as useful tools, and that's what humans are in the end. We're a tool-making species. That's what separates us from the other species, is our ability to make tools, both physical and now with computers, sort of digital.
L. ROTTENBERG: I'd love to dive into this, 'cause I heard a wonderful podcast you did with a mutual friend and Endeavor global board member, Reid Hoffman. And you and Reid were talking about these new AI tools and natural language prompting, what some people calling vibe coding, and how it harnessed correctly, creators, film directors, game designers, and other creators could become superhuman.
And tying that into our conversation about elsewhere, two of the most exciting companies in the Endeavor Network now are ElevenLabs, the leading voice AI company in the world, founded by two Polish entrepreneurs, and Runway, which is pioneering video generation AI, founded by two Chileans, and a Greek.
And so, I'd love you to tap into this notion and expand on how AI tools can superpower us or make us superhuman, and not just the pets of AI.
D. HASSABIS: Yeah. So, I think, these kinds of tools you're talking about, and we help build a lot of the models that are underlying some of the things that some of these tools use, is gonna be empowering in a couple of different, sort of just slightly different ways.
On the one hand, I think it will democratize creativity in the sense that everyday people will be able to create interesting things quite easily, much more easily than they can today using some of these tools, video creation, audio creation, and so on, but at the high end, I think for the professional creators, you know, artists and directors and so on, it will allow them to do even more amazing high-end work, because they'll be able to explore many more ideas much more quickly and much more cheaply than they could before, and then hone in using their judgment and their aesthetic skills and artistic skills which ones will be actually deeply meaningful rather than just being sort of superficial distractions.
And I think, both of those things paradoxically will be true with these new tools. So, you'll get a lot more tinkering around and fun things that are kind of throwaway bits of creativity, and I think you'll also get enabled the top creators to create even more meaningful and more plentiful versions of those things that deeply connect to us. And I think there'll actually be a desire, a strong desire from that from society to have more deep and meaningful art that is carefully curated by these, you know, brilliant artists.
L. ROTTENBERG: That's hopeful. Okay, before we turn to the last question, Mr. Prime Minister, I would love to hear your thoughts on a topic that we haven't explored yet, which is the subject you began with, which is AI and democracy. To many of us, democracy is feeling fragile now, and do you have any hopeful thoughts to offer us?
And then we have a basketball game.
K. MITSOTAKIS: I think democracy obviously faces numerous challenges, but I do believe that the prevalence of fake news and the new reality that is emerging of AI being able to easily sort of, create content that is what we call deep fakes, is obviously, you know, deeply disturbing to us.
But I think a lot of the damage has already been done by the sort of more traditional social media companies, in terms of them only being in touch with people who think along their lines, because that is exactly how you drive engagement. And also clearly, you can drive engagement in a more effective manner if you talk about negative things and about positive things.
So, societies that are extremely polarized, and people who are completely unable to listen to the other side of the argument, and you see that in the US with the just horrible assassination that just took place, and this complete inability to have, you know, debates where the position of the other side is respected. We may disagree, but we're not enemies. We don't kill each other. Democracy was invented and also, is a way to manage our differences in a civilized manner.
But if we start picking up guns and shooting at each other, then the whole notion of democracy collapses. So, you know, I would envision AI as maybe a gentle tool to challenge our beliefs. Rather than reinforcing our beliefs and putting us in touch with other people who think along the same lines, because this is what drives engagement, what would it mean to use AI in a smart way to say, "Well, maybe this is not exactly how you think it is." And to challenge people to think differently.
Maybe there, we can think about opportunity, because clearly the traditional social media companies had no interest in developing this sort of interactive dialogue that is, at the end of the day, at the heart of any well-functioning democracy.
L. ROTTENBERG: Did you want to respond?
D. HASSABIS: Yeah. Well, maybe I can say a couple of things about that but I think first of all, we see democracies are sort of under threat across the globe, and our value systems. And I think the way to protect that is you have to protect that from a position of strength, and I think that means technologically and economically, and I think that's why AI embracing that in all its forms, the opportunities is, is critical for Europe to do, UK to do, and the West to do.
And, and so that's, you know, part of why it's so important to be technologically leading in this new space. In terms of what AI can do to maybe help the discourse, I'm hopeful that we can use AI to do exactly what you're saying, Prime Minister, of broadening the debate.
And I have this notion of if we get AI right, maybe this idea of technology working for you as the individual, so you have a personal assistant that has your best interests in mind, and maybe then surfaces things that are perhaps nourishing, or beneficial, or helpful to you, not just what the kind of social media algorithms do today, which is mostly optimizing, you know, single sort of, optimization process of your attention, grabbing more and more of your attention, but not necessarily in a way that's beneficial to you as the individual.
So, I think with AI, because it's going to be a much more sophisticated algorithm, if you like, than today's very simple statistical algorithms, it can potentially take into account much more things than today's sort of social media, narrow social media algorithms.
And of course, you, as the individual, can speak to it in natural language and effectively program what you would actually like your assistant and your technology to do for you, and then have it go out and almost negotiate this torrent of other algorithms to bring to you what will be helpful and beneficial to you, and helpful in your daily life, including exposing you to more interesting ideas. So, that's my hope for what AI will end up being used for.
And I think the capitalists of the market dynamics will hopefully select, and users and consumers will select for those types of AI systems that do have those attributes.
L. ROTTENBERG: So, one minute for each of you remaining. What do each of you hope that the 5,000 citizens and leaders in the audience take away from today's discussion? Would you like to go first or second? He'd like to go last.
D. HASSABIS: Well, hopefully, everyone can take away the thoughts of how much complexity is here, you know, and there are people thinking about this, in the technology area, but also how all parts of society that are represented here have to come together and have these kinds of debates, and also on international level.
And I think Greece has a really important part to play in that, as a cradle of democracy and science, and maybe helping to lead the EU and Europe to think about these things in a nuanced way. And so, you know, that's what I hope everyone's going to go away being inspired by, also the opportunities that AI represents in the sciences and medicine and some of the things we've discussed.
K. MITSOTAKIS: Well, I would hope that we think more deeply and more constructively about the challenges, the opportunities and challenges of artificial intelligence. And I would also, hope that this dynamism that is exhibited in the Greek startup ecosystem continues, strengthens, and that we can actually manage to use this transformative technology for good purposes, while mitigating to the best of our ability, the risks that are clearly there and that I think we discussed today.
And, you know, as I look up there, I would also, hope that Demis will, as a Brit who traces part of his roots back to Greece will also, help us, in our effort to bring the Parthenon sculptures back to where they belong
L. ROTTENBERG: On message. Thank you both for this extraordinary dialogue, and thank you to the Prime Minister's Office, to Google, DeepMind, and to Endeavor, particularly Costanza and Panos, who curated this evening.
Well, I was just going to say, sitting here, in this extraordinary venue, we're reminded that the future isn't just for computer scientists and political leaders, it's for philosophers and artists and citizens, and that multidisciplinary dialogue is the way forward. So, thank you. Thank you all. Go Greece!